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| The Gender Battle Within The Church |
By Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Posted: 08/03 00:00:00/2007, Video Length: 7:59
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Executive Producer: Brannon Howse
Source: www.worldviewweekend.com
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Views: 4099
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/22/07 04:41:27 PM |
Age 47, MA |
I wish I saw this teaching a few months ago. I wasnt aware of the two views re men and women in the church and home.
Our large non denom. evang church had a vote on a by-law change. the vote would have allowed woman to seve as ruling elders and/or senior pastor. The proposed article was voted down ... the vote was 50% for 50% against. It needed 2/3 for a change.
I do believe it will be revisited though.
Thanks for this valuable teaching by Mrs Demoss.
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/15/07 12:27:48 AM |
Age 44, PA |
Women shouldn't be teachers of The Word if a capable man is availabe. Women should not be taking leadership roles in The Church. Timothy 2, Corinthians 14:33-35.
Jesus and the Samaritan Woman - John 4 specifically verses 14-16. I am not so sure about this. I am still praying to The Father, Jesus Christ, about this.
I am not an authority on anything. I'm simply stating my opinion. I want to learn what The Father wants to teach me. I know that Satan is the father of lies, and his plan is to lie, steal, and deceive as many people as he possible can away from Jesus Christ. Therefore, I must remain in constant prayer (to Jesus) and His Word. Be on guard for man because there are many false prohets out there. Matthew 7:15. This site could be one of them. Don't trust anybody but Jesus and His Word.
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- No women ministering or leading? Ever?
| Posted On: 06/17/08 10:09:21 AM | | Age 45, TN |
There are some exceptions to the rule of strict "male-only" leadership in the Bible, and so I must believe there are also biblical instances of this in the church and in the family, although it is and SHOULD BE exceedingly rare.
We would all do well not to forget the Prophetess Deborah, (one prophetess among three of God's prophetesses mentioned in the OT. The other two were Huldah and Miriam.
Deborah also judged Israel when all the men were afraid and would not obey God. Remember Moses' wife who circumcised their son when God was ready to strike him down for his disobedience. Remember Abigail who bowed before King David and offered him and his troops sustenance after her foolish and arrogant husband refused to provide relief to the King and his troops. Not that these women had leadership "roles" in any sense, but they did step in where their husbands or the men in society would not make godly decisions because of fear of man, arrogance, or distraction. Women MUST obey God even if (and especially if) the men will not.
Recently, I had the "opportunity" to witness the phenomenon of men fearing to stand up and call sin what it was - sin. So the women who were witnesses to the sin, which involved a so-called "ministry leader", had to stand up and try to hold the person accountable by appealing to the leadership over him, and still the men who should have stood up and done so would not correct the offender biblically. So the "leader" in question was allowed to continue "ministering" without being properly disciplined because the men of God were too concerned with their own business to make a godly judgement. I believe these men will have to answer to God for their lack of discernment and disobedience to the Word.
There is a difference between a godly leadership hierarchy and a "good ol' boy" network (like was experienced in the above example) where the women are told to mind their own business or their godly discernment is discounted or ignored and not allowed to even speak out against sin in the church.
A woman can engage in ministry in the church, she just cannot have authority over a man.
http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html
However, if there is NO CAPABLE MAN, is it not better to have a capable (and godly) woman teach a congregation than to not have any teaching at all? Especially if the men are willing to listen to her and she does not Lord it over them? Then when a capable man comes forward, any humble, godly, and submissive woman should be more than willing to step aside to let him take the role over.
I do not believe this would be such a far-fetched scenario in some parts of the world and in the U.S. as well. So many people coming into the church have been thoroughly trained in the ways and ethics of the world instead of the Word, and the pool of male leaders are becoming more and more filled with closet sinners and secular/atheist infiltrators.
I happen to think the proper order in the church means men in higher leadership positions and women in essentially supportive and appropriate ministry roles in the church, but not as elders and pastors. However, when the women are not allowed any voice at all (even if her husband supports her decision to act on a spiritual unction or releases her to minister to other women) then that is not a biblical worldview.
Godly submission between a man and his wife as well as godly, obedient and discerning leadership always leads to great gain in the kingdom of God. Godly and wise women have much to offer in the way of ministry, and stifling their God-given spiritual gifts in the church is not what the Bible teaches.
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/06/07 07:38:05 PM |
Age 32, MN |
God Bless you for sharing the truth Nancy!! I hope and pray more people would come to the same understanding of God's word. I was blind about these truths at one time in my life. I thank God that, now I see! Peace, joy, and love now fill my home, because I have allowed God to renew my heart and mind on this, and other issues.
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/05/07 02:28:06 AM |
Age 47, CA |
This was a great start on a very interesting topic that I would like to hear more about. The video ended at a critical point of defining the "distinctions" between the roles of men and women in the home and the church, and it would be nice to hear more from the author about the particular distinctions in a complimentary approach. Thank you for introducing this topic. Blessings
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/03/07 08:20:20 PM |
Age 51, PA |
Why are women in a lower social rank across various roles including domestic work without pay, employment with a lower pay and simply outright discrimination? From what I've observed, women are not expected to ever have grey hair, but that makes a man look distinguished.
If a man naturally prefers to be a stay-at-home dad with his kids and it works out well, why not deligate this role to him? If a woman naturally prefers to be employed while her husband takes care of children, why not allow this to happen? Christ knew that women were in a lower social rank in his day and treated them with respect. That doesn't really happen today. That is why women want to work and have equal roles. Men have too much control.
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- Re: Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/30/07 04:40:14 AM | | Age 54, NA |
This, unfortunately is the proudful feminist view that totally ignores the Word of God. The question I have about this speaker, based as I have said on the bible and not female world view, is why is she teaching at all? Why is she standing up before an audience of men and women teaching her personally favorite WORLD view and not being submitted to the Word which clearly states that she should not be teaching at all?
It is this kind of leven that has so weakened the gospel teaching in the Church that has made it into a spiritually dry and dead place where desperate pastors think entertainment values are needed in place of the truth, to try and bring people into their Churches. (Often just to fleece them of money) The people they get are often unsaved "believers" who never understand about sacrifice for Christ in their daily lives. (The devil believes in Jesus too so if that were the ONLY priority he would be saved...Right? Read John 14;15; for a better understanding of what JESUS says we need to do to be saved)Rarely understand the true gospel of "Christ in you" (because they are not taught it) and whose sins are "tolerated" even encouraged because that is easier than telling them the truth. It is the same way with these arrogant women in the Church who think because they want something God has to give it to them and they ignore the scriptures they do not like. God has a word for them...it is called judgement and I understand fully the meaning of the verses relating to Christian judgement and it is not just the verse plucked out and written above.
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- feminism is not the enemy
| Posted On: 01/23/08 09:29:23 PM | | Age 20, OH |
There's nothing 'proudful' about advocating women's rights. It is, however, extremely proudful for a man to expect a woman to limit herself to such a restricted role. What about women who have the gifts of leadership, prophecy and teaching? Should they not exercise their gifts to the fullest level, as men have always been allowed to do? The words of the Apostle Paul have been twisted for centuries to suit the purposes of the patriarchal church leadership. What was intended as advice for a particular congregation with a particular problem has been applied across centuries to subdue and oppress countless women. This is deplorable, and it is a shameful period of church history that is hopefully coming to an end. Instead of ordering a woman to conform to your individual standards, you should examine your own heart and critically review your reasons for such a view. I know that my own view is based on the belief the God has created all humans equal, and has set free the captives.
SEJ
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Re: The Gender Battle Within The Church
| Posted On: 08/03/07 01:11:55 PM |
Age 37, HI |
I agree 100% with what she's saying. It's a shame she didn't use God's Holy Word more to back up her statements. I also find it a bit ironic that the teaching of "equal before God, but created for different roles" is being taught in a church by a woman (see 1 Cor 14:34-35). It seems clear that men are to teach in the church, yet we've hijacked God's Word to fit what society says is OK.
I don't think it's a "salvation" issue, but it certainly seems to be a compromise of the Truth, which is what this video speaks out against.
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